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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: Alarm Systems NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
fastestbusaaround


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posted June 13, 2006 06:50 PM        
Send me a PM...with all your contact info.
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NightShine


Parking Attendant
Posts: 1
posted June 15, 2006 07:57 AM        
quote:
I'll have PDF brochures for download late next week for all you guys to peruse...


Hi, FBO. I'm an interloper from the FJRFORUM following a reference to your alarm system that was posted there. Thanks for what info you've been able to share to date on this interesting alternative to the Scorpio 500. I see you'd mentioned a PDF brochure last month. Are the brochures available yet?

Thanks!

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fastestbusaaround


Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
posted June 15, 2006 08:37 AM        
We're stil working on it now...but will be available at www.autoland.ca soon...as will the complete information package...thanks for the interest! We are hard at work on the final production now...
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Phytrax


Zone Head
Posts: 526
posted October 13, 2006 10:11 PM        
I kinda prefer the idea of being able to shut off the bike even if someone starts it, like Scorpio's alarm, so I got some questions about the Phantom X alarm:

1. Can the bike be hotwired with the Phantom X alarm?
2. What type of control and feedback do you get from the FOB?
3. Does it have a proximity sensor?
4. Someone mentioned hazards to the rider with an ignition kill, can someone explain how that would be possible if the alarm is off?
____________
Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
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fastestbusaaround


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Posts: 7889
posted October 13, 2006 10:41 PM        
1. Can the bike be hotwired with the Phantom X alarm? -- any bike can be hotwired, alarm or not
2. What type of control and feedback do you get from the FOB? -- 2-way with piezo beeper as paging
3. Does it have a proximity sensor? -- no, that would eat your battery in a big way and false alarm like crazy, bug waste of your money
4. Someone mentioned hazards to the rider with an ignition kill, can someone explain how that would be possible if the alarm is off? Failure on the relay that's used for an ignition kill circuit. If it fails during a manouver, you could get badly hurt or die; alarm on or off, it makes no difference. A relay uses contacts when it's open or closed and a contact can fail. You only use starter cut on a bike to ensure that if the relay fails, you don't get into trouble while riding. It's not as secure as interrupting ignition, but it's a small tradeoff to ensure your continued survival on the planets surface instead of under it.
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raptor14


Expert Class
Posts: 264
posted October 14, 2006 04:13 AM        
Damn you FBA. I had my 2006 mods complete, figured I had all my 2007 mods scoped out, and now I'm getting convinced I should add your alarm to my list. Well, I guess after you helped get the "flies out" issue settled and improved my 14, I owe you one. Anxiously awaiting the .pdf file discussing the alarm. May add this as another winter project on the 14.
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TeamSpeed


Expert Class
Posts: 449
posted October 14, 2006 11:49 AM        
This as a winter project, won't take you long. Maybe 2 hours tops, depending on how anal you are about wiring.
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Phytrax


Zone Head
Posts: 526
posted October 14, 2006 09:00 PM        Edited By: Phytrax on 15 Oct 2006 05:03
No offense FBA but your answers sound really biased, which of course they are, but they sound that way too. Maybe you're spot on but it just sounds more like you're dodging and redirecting. Let me rephrase my questions and see if that helps any:

1. Is the Phantom X easier to hotwire than the Scorpio SR-i500?
2. Ok, your FOB is much simpler than the Scorpio, mabye that's good, maybe not.
3. What do you mean by the proximity sensor causing false alarms exactly? I'd like to know when someone is close to my bike, that's not the same as a full blown alarm. I'd also like for my bike to bark at people when they are close so kids don't play with stuff or someone doens't bump into my bike and knock it over. So how much power drain are we talking about? If it takes a week to drain the battery I don't see that as a problem.
4. I'm guessing losing power in a very hard turn could cause loss of traction and cause a wreck, which would be very bad, but how often does a contact fail?

Thanks again for the education, and good luck with your system, I'm keeping my eye out for the retail version.
____________
Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
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1393kph


Novice Class
Posts: 50
posted October 14, 2006 09:37 PM        Edited By: 1393kph on 15 Oct 2006 08:14
quote:
No offense FBA but your answers sound really biased, which of course they are, but they sound that way too. Maybe you're spot on but it just sounds more like you're dodging and redirecting. Let me rephrase my questions and see if that helps any:

1. Is the Phantom X easier to hotwire than the Scorpio SR-i500?
2. Ok, your FOB is much simpler than the Scorpio, mabye that's good, maybe not.
3. What do you mean by the proximity sensor causing false alarms exactly? I'd like to know when someone is close to my bike, that's not the same as a full blown alarm. I'd also like for my bike to bark at people when they are close so kids don't play with stuff or someone doens't bump into my bike and knock it over. So how much power drain are we talking about? If it takes a week to drain the battery I don't see that as a problem.
4. I'm guessing losing power in a very hard turn could cause loss of traction and cause a wreck, which would be very bad, but how often does a contact fail?

Thanks again for the education, and good luck with your system, I'm keeping my eye out for the retail version.


I'm happy to jump in on this - I have one of the prerelease Phantom-X units installed on my FJR:

1. ANY bike can be hotwired unless you have a factory transponder system. I'm not sure why they don't provide them in the US - not Kawasaki and not Yamaha. Keys certainly cost a lot more, too.

You pull the appropriate plastic bits and jump out the wiring that's been installed - doesn't get much simpler than that. But it doesn't much matter, mind you because if they can't hotwire it they just roll it into a pickup and drive away with it in the back.

2. A passive fob means that the system is fully automatic. You needn't remember to arm it. You needn't remember to disarm it. And if you lose the fob, you can bypass the alarm using a sequence - which is a good reason NOT to advertise your alarm with a sticker.

3. A proximity detector draws current. Bike batteries are TINY. Proximity detectors aren't reliable, either. You'd be notified fairly often by pets, debris and other issues. The angle sensor isn't quite as sensitive as I'd personally like at this time (it is a software thing), but it does work well.

4. Once is all it takes. However if you want to wire it up to kill the ignition, feel free to do so at your own risk. FBA has lots of warnings telling you not to disable the ignition with the system. If you choose to ignore the warnings and you go down on a superhighway and get flattened by a semi, your heirs won't be able to sue Autoland for negligence.

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fastestbusaaround


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Posts: 7889
posted October 14, 2006 09:44 PM        
LOL...thanks 1393 for chiming in...!
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FasterThanStink


Pro
Posts: 1218
posted October 15, 2006 12:27 AM        
Let's clear up some of the misinformation on the proximity sensor. Does it use power? Yes a small amount. You can leave it on fo 10 days continually. The system has a sensor that shuts it off after that time. A non issue for most I would suspect, as how often would you leave it on for that long.
As for falsing and alarm triggering the sensor can easily be adjusted for sensitivity. It just chirps when some on is quite close to the bike. The sensor faces up so a dog or cat walking by the bike will not set it off. I don't use it all the time but if the bike is uncovered and I am gone for a short while it's nice to have the extra measure of alerting someone that the bike is protected. Don't mess with it.
If some repeatedly ignores the chirps then the full alarm will go off. In my experience the sensor is extremly reliable and does not send false signals for every little thing.
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suddenly becoming stationary...
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zx14_1965


Zone Head
Posts: 505
posted October 15, 2006 01:00 PM        
quote:
Kawasaki has a "disabler" type unit made exclusively for the 14.
I had a chance to page through a factory 14 shop manual, and came across a large section, chapter'd exclusively for this system.
I'm sure this accessory will be plenty out of pocket... maybe on par with Lojack for bikes?... meaning, price only, not functions.


Lojack squared away the other day, great special interest member discount.

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Phytrax


Zone Head
Posts: 526
posted October 15, 2006 01:51 PM        
I understand the concerns with the ignition killer, but still, if it only fails 0.1% of the time and I would guess 99% of the time you would just coast to a stop, that's pretty darn good odds, probably less than your average mehanical failure. On the other hand if they fail say 5% of the time I'd say that's too risky.

Anyone know if you can rig the Scorpio to the starter or is it ignition only?

I'm still digging the proximity sensor too, 10 days is plenty for my needs. Come up with a good proximity sensor for an extra $30 or so and I'll send you my deposit, FBA!
____________
Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
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fastestbusaaround


Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
posted October 15, 2006 08:01 PM        Edited By: fastestbusaaround on 16 Oct 2006 04:43
Prox sensors are something we will not be selling anytime soon. They don't work well in cars or on any other vehicles. They consume battery very quickly and don't offer much benefit. They do false and even one such alert is too much. Prox sensors such as passive infra red (PIR) or microwave detection systems are really designed for non moving, fixed installations like residences and businesses ...etc. They weren't really intended for moving targets or mobile vehicles.

Our system uses about 1/20th the amount of power of anyone else's product currently available and we pride ourselves on that and the fact that we don't have false alarms. Any time an alarm triggers for something that isn't a true violation, it's a false alarm. Someone walking near a bike and setting an alarm is a false alarm, not to mention what happens when it rains.

As far as ignition disable goes, it's not something we will ever sell. There is no amount of money worth sacrificing a life for so if you're looking for ignition disable and don't care about the consequences, perhaps you should look at a product that offers such a feature. This was a feature that the major alarm manufacturers did away with in the late 80's. If they want your bike that badly, let 'em have it...that's what insurance is for. They could always pick your bike up on a flatbed or in a pickup...alarm or not.

Does anyone remember the recall on the down sensor on the 14 and what the problem was? In a word, they said that if it failed, the bike could shut down while being ridden...

Well, that's exactly what can happen with an aftermarket "ignition disable" system and it does.

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TeamSpeed


Expert Class
Posts: 449
posted October 15, 2006 08:30 PM        Edited By: TeamSpeed on 16 Oct 2006 04:33
Alarms are just deterrants, period. And the phantom is a great deterrant, after having installed it. It does enough to make it a pain to steal the bike via the normal methods. The phantom does a great job preventing the ignition from being punched to start the bike, and also even if somebody gets their hands on your key, they still cannot start it without the passive fob. Like FBA says, if somebody wants the bike badly enough in the event of all of these roadblocks, they will just stick it in a truck and take it.

However, with anything, get what you will like and feel comfortable with. Whichever gives you the most peace of mind for the value is what is right for you.

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Phytrax


Zone Head
Posts: 526
posted October 16, 2006 09:11 AM        Edited By: Phytrax on 16 Oct 2006 17:13
I'm not saying that the ignition disable can't fail, I'm quite sure it can, but the wheel can fall off too, it's all about percentages. You can say no amount of money is worth dying but that's not entirely true or no one would be a construction worker, drive cars, fly airplanes or much of anything else. It's all about the odds.

I think you're missing the point of a proximity sensor too. As far as I know a proximity sensor will not set off a full blown alarm, it just blips and lets you know someone is close. Thats the whole reason I want an alarm. I'm not that much worried about someone stealing it as I am someone knocking it over or knocking my helmet on the ground. Maybe I'm wrong, thought, if the proximity only sets off the full alarm then that's pretty useless. Hell, I'd buy just a proximity sensor with no starter kill or full alarm at all if I knew of one.

I'm not trying to trash the Phantom X or anything, sounds like a great alarm for certain applications. The starter kill might be a better solution for one thing. But there are different reasons for buying alarms, Like not wanting punks with chains and safety pins all over their pants sitting on my bike.



____________
Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
>>> MySpace --CLICK-- <<<

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fastestbusaaround


Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
posted October 16, 2006 11:00 AM        
"Hell, I'd buy just a proximity sensor with no starter kill or full alarm at all if I knew of one."
You could easily and with a flashing relay...you could just have horn honks to deter them...very inexpensive and effective solution for what you want to do!
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Phytrax


Zone Head
Posts: 526
posted October 16, 2006 08:15 PM        
I'm not an electrical engineer, if someone could point me to a kit I just might do that, otherwise it would take me a while to figure out how to rig up something like that. I'd prefer something besides the horn blowing, but it's a good suggestion, something I'll have to look into, thanks.
____________
Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
>>> MySpace --CLICK-- <<<

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