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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: Millinium NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
bishopzx12


Zone Head
Posts: 517
posted October 12, 2006 06:31 AM        
Millinium

Hey guys i am going to do a big bore on my 14 along with the stroker crank. I myself am going to do it alond with a friend think i will savce some money in the long run.

I am going to do:

1417 kit from muzzys
Stock crank stroked by falicon

Since the engine casing is all one piece i assume i do not need any spacer plate and such as i did withthe muzzy 1375. I am assuming the head gasket is all i will need.

My question for you guys is i hear i can get my casing bore by millineum. I hear they do great work but what other services do they offer for the head. Do they also do good porting. I am thnking of getting a good port job alon with some titanium valve springs and retainers and maybe a 5 angle axis valve job. i need some help on this guys so please all chime in pistons are already ordered and on the way.

____________
1996 ZX7R
1999 ZX9R
1999 ZX11
2000 ZX12R 1270
2002 GSXR 1000 "I was Drunk"
2003 ZX12R 1375
2006 ZX14
2012 ZX14R

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GUNNER


Needs a life
Posts: 5778
posted October 12, 2006 07:11 AM        Edited By: GUNNER on 12 Oct 2006 15:13
Only way to do a stroker on a set up like this is by either useing a shorter rod or Moving the wrist pin locaton in the piston or both. On the 10R strokers that I seen a Coby Adams he moved the pin up in the piston, BUT that comes with the price of only having two rings on the pston.
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ZXLNT


Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
posted October 12, 2006 07:51 AM        
Bishop send your cranshaft to www.marinecrankshaft.com And as far as I know millenium only does cylinder boring and plating. Coby adams or Bob Carpenter would be good to send the head off to. Do some research before you spend that hard earned $$$
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GUNNER


Needs a life
Posts: 5778
posted October 12, 2006 08:35 AM        Edited By: GUNNER on 12 Oct 2006 16:37
Coby probably knows about as much about the 14 motor as Kawasaki does at this time. Only thing about Bob's port work that I seen that sucked ass was his CNC pogram stops right behind the valve seat area leaving a sizable step.. The cylinder heads I seen that he did had NOTHING done to help this situation either.. I would think that a little hand blending wouldn't be too much to ask Ol Bob to do for what he charges. That's a spot that you don't want to overlook.
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bishopzx12


Zone Head
Posts: 517
posted October 12, 2006 08:49 AM        
HEy zx i was thinking of going with falicon. I have heard a lot of good thinng about them over the years. I am goign to check out the www.marinecrankshaft.com web page however. Gunner you are right. He is o nly about 1.45 hrs from me. did not know he did head work though. will call them tomorrow first thing. Is there a certsin rod length i should be looking for. Iam thinking of going withthe knife rods from falicon also. I forgot all about the length of the rod does anyone know how long a rod i should be looking to order.

i tihk this is going to be a year project. i will have the piston in a week ot two. The fist freeze i am pulling the motor and sending the head and crank off.Next i will order rods and send crank off. after that i will send the head off. WHat do you guys know about cams for this think should they ne degreed or should i be looking for some after market cams???
____________
1996 ZX7R
1999 ZX9R
1999 ZX11
2000 ZX12R 1270
2002 GSXR 1000 "I was Drunk"
2003 ZX12R 1375
2006 ZX14
2012 ZX14R

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zx12mark


Pro
Posts: 1649
posted October 12, 2006 09:40 AM        
i think you need to learn how to proof read and spell before you fuck up your engine. i'm saving you alot of money .triple check everything.........you hear me mister!
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bishopzx12


Zone Head
Posts: 517
posted October 12, 2006 09:53 AM        
Zx12mark. Yo are so right. I am a mechanical engineering student in his senior year with a minor in nuclear engineering. I picked that major because my english and grammer sucks. That is why i love numbers. They dont care what order you put them in and they still make sense.LOL
____________
1996 ZX7R
1999 ZX9R
1999 ZX11
2000 ZX12R 1270
2002 GSXR 1000 "I was Drunk"
2003 ZX12R 1375
2006 ZX14
2012 ZX14R

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zxlnt


Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
posted October 12, 2006 10:16 AM        
E=MC2
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GUNNER


Needs a life
Posts: 5778
posted October 12, 2006 10:30 AM        
Coby will steer you in the right direction for a bullet proof engine build..
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kspz3


Expert Class
Posts: 334
posted October 12, 2006 10:35 AM        
quote:
i think you need to learn how to proof read and spell before you fuck up your engine. i'm saving you alot of money .triple check everything.........you hear me mister!


+1......... You are scaring me - with this on the fly design and ambition to be a nuclear engineer....... best bet is just to send it and your check book to a good engine builder as previously advised - internet engineering may not yeild the desired result....

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bishopzx12


Zone Head
Posts: 517
posted October 12, 2006 11:15 AM        
Zxlnt the proper Term in E=MC^2.LOL

kspz3 I feel you on that i think i am just going to do the tear down along with a friend of mine who is a graduate of MMI. I am goign to let coby do the build up though. I am no fool.
____________
1996 ZX7R
1999 ZX9R
1999 ZX11
2000 ZX12R 1270
2002 GSXR 1000 "I was Drunk"
2003 ZX12R 1375
2006 ZX14
2012 ZX14R

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zxlnt


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Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
posted October 12, 2006 11:48 AM        
So I left out the carrot. Big deal..
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BobC


Pro
Posts: 1736
posted October 12, 2006 05:16 PM        Edited By: BobC on 13 Oct 2006 01:18
Schnitz are listing the Muzzy 2mm overbore piston kit and stroker crank which takes it to 1534cc. The upper crankcase needs plating after the overbore and they require your existing crank.
http://secure.mycart.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=4874274&showprevnext=1

____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles

2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)

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VincentHill


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Posts: 6515
posted October 12, 2006 09:13 PM        
Bishop, FOr 60 CC's a Stroker and Bore Job?? $3,000 spent! How can that be worth it?

If a 60 CC engine can make 10 HP that is great A race 50 CC may make 17 HP. A 20 SHot if NOS and you are overcome!

Stop the Madness! If you are going to be a 1500 and gain close to 150 CC then you have something!

Even If you are a Millionaire then I still do not think it is worth 60 CC
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!

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Bently


Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
posted October 12, 2006 10:12 PM        
I'm with vincent on this one it's to costly to tear down the zx 14 engine if your not going all the way. A 40 shot of nos will do the same thing in the quarter mile. Or I would look at a turbo first IMO.
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ninja12


Needs a job
Posts: 3310
posted October 12, 2006 11:55 PM        Edited By: ninja12 on 13 Oct 2006 07:58
More than a few horror stories about falicon, your money would be much better spent on APE or marine crankshaft. If Falicon GAVE me a $1000 worth of free services it would be on ebay before dark.
JE piston, APE crank, and Carrillo rods = Big savings
you already know the sizes that you want.

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bishopzx12


Zone Head
Posts: 517
posted October 13, 2006 12:14 AM        
Vincent i do feel you. I am going all the way out to the 1534. Me and the young lady you met with me are tieing the knot next year and i said that i was probably going ot give up street riding and just spend 2-3 days a month at the track to ease the temptaion riding of all day and night riding during the warm months. So my 14 next year will be a race only version. i think in the long run i am going to buy a zx10 to play with however

Ninja i am going to try the marine crank shaft people. However does anyone know any technical info on the knife rod offer by falicon vs. the carillo fods. The design of them seem sound.

____________
1996 ZX7R
1999 ZX9R
1999 ZX11
2000 ZX12R 1270
2002 GSXR 1000 "I was Drunk"
2003 ZX12R 1375
2006 ZX14
2012 ZX14R

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Y2KZX12R


Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
posted October 13, 2006 12:42 AM        
If your shortening the rod you need to do some skirt loading calcs. Maybe offset the pin to reduce skirt loads.
You might want to raise the pin and shorten the rod to the desired combo. Deck height also needs to be figured in for tight squish.
The skirt load curve is exponential so you might want to rethink the stroke and pin offset to keep the numbers in line.
I dont know how well engineered some of these kits are, but theres more to this than meets the eye. Those engineers actually do, do somthing.
Theres software available to do all this calculating for you. But you will have to take the engine apart and measure several things to give the software good numbers to start with.
Being a drag race engine that wont see mutch run time then you can get away with a little more than an engine that will see 50,000 miles.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com

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VincentHill


Needs a life
Posts: 6515
posted October 13, 2006 02:38 AM        
OK, 1534 is better than the figure of 1417. I have not seen a Piston from a 14, but if it is "ANYTHING" like the 12 piston, the pin is already within 1 MM of the Oil control ring and the person that said you may have to go to a 2 ring set up is correct! the problem there is the piston being very short is unstable and prone to rocking which loads the skirts and will break the piston at the Skirt (Just like the problems Yoshimura had when they originally changed the design on the 750 engine at Daytona one year. All they did was spray the dye on the pistons and see the cracks. The Engine would not last 250 miles period and that is not the load a Drag race engine sees but you get the idea. Having a ZX14 is great for you but it was not designed to be the Be ALL end ALL Drag race engine like a BUSA is.

#1 thru 10 you are limited because of the Case / Cylinder being 1 piece. With a Busa or ZX12 you can simply change the cylinder or in my case raise the Cylinder. You cannot do either. I have said this Over and Over about the design of this engine and will continue to say it. I really feel that a ZX12R Engine can be made to have more power than a ZX14 engine and be reliable


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zx14_1965


Zone Head
Posts: 505
posted October 13, 2006 02:42 AM        
quote:
My question for you guys is i hear i can get my casing bore by millineum. I hear they do great work but what other services do they offer for the head. Do they also do good porting. I am thnking of getting a good port job alon with some titanium valve springs and retainers and maybe a 5 angle axis valve job. i need some help on this guys so please all chime in pistons are already ordered and on the way.



Millenium does outstanding bore work, I've had them do work on my ZRX and RS Warrior. Not sure about their headwork. I've used APE in the past for porting...top notch service and work.
Check out their site: www.aperaceparts.com

This is another topic open for differing opinions and suggestions......

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zx14_1965


Zone Head
Posts: 505
posted October 13, 2006 02:50 AM        
quote:
Bishop, FOr 60 CC's a Stroker and Bore Job?? $3,000 spent! How can that be worth it?

If a 60 CC engine can make 10 HP that is great A race 50 CC may make 17 HP. A 20 SHot if NOS and you are overcome!

Stop the Madness! If you are going to be a 1500 and gain close to 150 CC then you have something!

Even If you are a Millionaire then I still do not think it is worth 60 CC


If you are thrifty and smart you can do some wonders with mods.
I spent less than $1800to build my ZRX 1200 which puts out 170RWHP, (180rwhp is very optimistic with a full port head and Yosh stage I cams/proper cam degreeing).....this is what I did with the ZRX: +2mm overbore, JE slipper pistons, ZZR cams/springs/Yosh adj cam sprocket, stage I headwork and very special Yosh TMR-MJN 38mm race carbs.
Gained nearly 60rwhp from stock......:very doubtful people told me it couldn't be done...corn
Also helps to know the right people.......

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zx14_1965


Zone Head
Posts: 505
posted October 13, 2006 02:51 AM        
quote:
I'm with vincent on this one it's to costly to tear down the zx 14 engine if your not going all the way. A 40 shot of nos will do the same thing in the quarter mile. Or I would look at a turbo first IMO.


NOS is the ticket in biggest bang for the buck category for the 14....but I'm very content with mine as is.

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zx14_1965


Zone Head
Posts: 505
posted October 13, 2006 02:53 AM        
quote:
quote:
Bishop, FOr 60 CC's a Stroker and Bore Job?? $3,000 spent! How can that be worth it?

If a 60 CC engine can make 10 HP that is great A race 50 CC may make 17 HP. A 20 SHot if NOS and you are overcome!

Stop the Madness! If you are going to be a 1500 and gain close to 150 CC then you have something!

Even If you are a Millionaire then I still do not think it is worth 60 CC


If you are thrifty and smart you can do some wonders with mods.
I spent less than $1800to build my ZRX 1200 which puts out 170RWHP, (180rwhp is very optimistic with a full port head and Yosh stage I cams/proper cam degreeing).....this is what I did with the ZRX: +2mm overbore, JE slipper pistons, ZZR cams/springs/Yosh adj cam sprocket, stage I headwork and very special Yosh TMR-MJN 38mm race carbs.
Gained nearly 60rwhp from stock......:some thought it couldn't be done...corn
Also helps to know the right people.......

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VincentHill


Needs a life
Posts: 6515
posted October 13, 2006 04:44 AM        
Is that 170 SAE?? or STD? If STD then still about 162 is good for a True 1200 using Carbs. My 1052 makes 133 SAE and 140 STD no Bore or Stroke, No Head Work or Carbs and still using the Stock Airbox. (Yes the ZX11 Cams and a 4-2-1 Hindle). I also feel that if I bored and Stroked it to 1200 CC then I should be able to gain 20+ more HP but I am not going to do that because it is fine right now. Since I have the AirBox and a HUGE Place to store a 2.5 or even a 5 pound bottle, I may just spray a 30 or 40 shot and pull on the throttle enrichment device to add the extra fuel and have 170 to 180 HP to Whup up on those 14's that may come calling! (While I am out riding and minding my own business

I think that the Muzz Man made about 240 to 250 HP NA on the ZX12R Race engine he had. I do not think the 14 will make more! even with the Muzz man at the wheel!

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bishopzx12


Zone Head
Posts: 517
posted October 14, 2006 09:17 AM        
Vincent once i get my bike torn apart and back together with the 1534 i might come tappin tapping at your chamber door in the immortal words of Edgar Allen Poe.

Jsut kidding i know where to draw the line. i realize i am still the grasshopper and you are the teacher though i hope one day to take the stone from your hand
____________
1996 ZX7R
1999 ZX9R
1999 ZX11
2000 ZX12R 1270
2002 GSXR 1000 "I was Drunk"
2003 ZX12R 1375
2006 ZX14
2012 ZX14R

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