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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: -My ZX-14 Build Thread- (TOC on page 1) NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
Shane661


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posted November 21, 2008 01:16 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 21 Nov 2008 17:19
Since it is cold and I'm not likely the be at the track for awhile, I figured I would address one of the "sore spots" on the 14. That is rear tire and swingarm clearance once the bike is lowered. I want to get the bike down lower, but right now I am limited. This part of the project will probably take a couple of weeks, depending on what I decide to do for swingarm clearance.

So, to start, I am going to replace the undertail. I had mounted a license plate under there in order to protect the ecu from the tire rubbing through:



It did the job well, but let's face it: You don't want your tire dragging your fender! Aside from the risk of damaging parts, the tire is creating friction and drag when it touches down on the fender. Here is the current amount of clearance:



My best option seemed to be the Tiger Racing undertail. Even if if doesn't initially offer more clearance, I can always modify it since it is aluminum sheet. It also has nice flat surfaces for mounting my electronics:



In order to get the stock undertail out you must remove the fuel tank, associated fairings, some of the rear plastics, and the seat. I also found that removing the rear wheel helped slide things out easier. Needles to say, it will take awhile!

Here is the stock unit in place, you can see that it extends under the fuel tank area:





Here is the area once you remove the stock piece:





Stock piece compared to the Tiger Racing part:



Taking a glace under the tank, it is apparent just how far that fuel pump sticks down:





Like I say, I have yet to decide how I am going to address the clearance issue with the pump. I have a spare stock arm which I can have notched, I could give the 08 style fuel pump a try (it doesn't stick down as low), or I can bite the bullet and put a racing swingarm on it. Each has their merits and I will ponder it for a bit.

Back in pieces:



I also took the time to verify my wheelbase at 64". It's tempting to go longer, but then I really throw away what I have learned riding the bike at this length and gearing. Also I don't want to fight with traction issues next year. I've seen a 64" 14 run an 8.5x on the motor with a pro rider. So I think there is plenty of potential at the current wheelbase!

I'm always open to suggestions, however!

Shane

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burnout


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posted November 21, 2008 02:37 AM        
quote:
colour is ok as long as its not warped. you are just on the edge. funny pattern though, I would think the pressure plate should clamp evenly, but with unbalanced static pressure, maybe it doesnt? how thick are the spacers that you are using? maybe you could borrow/buy some thinner lock up spacers and "spread out" the amount of spacer you are currently using evenly over all 5 springs without changing the amount of static pressure you are used to.
I did see a really funny pattern on an R1 clutch pack at the track this yr. (that bike was not made for drag racing) he had to slip the clutch a lot because he had street gearing and stock wb, and after a few passes he would put a "bubble" on his steels in one spot all the way thru the stack in the same place. it was thicker on both sides, allmost like there was an air bubble in the steel and when it got super hot it expanded forcing the metal out both ways.... very strange


I've seen that before. Smokin's steels kind of do that.
____________
1/8 5.66@129.77
1/4 8.74@159.60

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burnout


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posted November 21, 2008 03:12 AM        
quote:


I also took the time to verify my wheelbase at 64". It's tempting to go longer, but then I really throw away what I have learned riding the bike at this length and gearing. Also I don't want to fight with traction issues next year. I've seen a 64" 14 run an 8.5x on the motor with a pro rider. So I think there is plenty of potential at the current wheelbase!

I'm always open to suggestions, however!

Shane


Just a tip for safety sake. You're going to want to keep an eye on how far out your extension adjustment bolts come out. The design that you have does not use a plate for mounting the axle like the ones in the picture below do. This means that your bolts will show a lot more thread at a given wheel base and can be bent from hard launches. It can get ugly real quick when a bike spits them out and the wheel goes cockeyed in the swingarm. I bent mine using a similar design, but luckily didn't go down.


____________
1/8 5.66@129.77
1/4 8.74@159.60

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Shane661


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posted November 21, 2008 03:17 AM        
quote:
Just a tip for safety sake. You're going to want to keep an eye on how far out your extension adjustment bolts come out. The design that you have does not use a plate for mounting the axle like the ones in the picture below do. This means that your bolts will show a lot more thread at a given wheel base and can be bent from hard launches. It can get ugly real quick when a bike spits them out and the wheel goes cockeyed in the swingarm. I bent mine using a similar design, but luckily didn't go down.


Thanks for the tip. I did notice that the bolts are much larger diameter than stock, presumably for that reason. Maybe I should get some bigger plates made if I don't change swingarms. I'm about in the middle of the adjustment range right now.

Shane

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KZScott


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posted November 21, 2008 03:17 AM        
Hey Shane, maybe it would be a good idea to cut part of the undertail out so the tire can travel up into the tail on a hard launch. put(rivet/tig) a piece of rounded aluminum(think bowl) over the hole you created to seal it off. dremmel all sharp edges just incase. kind of like what you see on normal undertails for stock WB bikes. the dished up section over the tire.
this is an old pic of the mototeck undertail I put on when I had a stock tail. you can see how if the bike was stock WB that the tire could move right up into the tail

Im thinking that if my tire hits when Im extended further to 68 inches im going to modify the undertail i made. its part of my old mototeck, fiberglass and some body fill, nothing fancy so nothing to it. it was hitting at about 65.5 inches on my harder launches at the very end of the season. I think i may have to cut out a section between the signal lights

IMO try the 08 pump. you will know if the flow rates changed based on what your data logs tell you, and if it changed you can just tweak the map.

____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

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Shane661


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posted November 21, 2008 03:24 AM        
I got the undertail mounted, for a trial fit:



It looks to add around 1" of additional clearance:



Everything fits fairly cleanly underneath. I'll be spending some time changing the arrangement to fit everything I want nicely:



It comes with a "built-in" fender/license plate mount. I will probably end up altering it:



After removing the pan under the tank, I see that there is more room than I thought before the pump will hit:





It looks like I might be able to drop the bike another inch in the rear safely. Maybe a slight preload adjustment and the tire might not hit at all, and ditto for the fuel pump. I need to take some more measurements throughout the range of suspension travel in order to play it safe.

Shane

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KZScott


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posted November 21, 2008 03:30 AM        
heres a thought, take the lowering links off and see what hits first, the tire or pump
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

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Shane661


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posted November 21, 2008 03:31 AM        
quote:
heres a thought, take the lowering links off and see what hits first, the tire or pump


That's what I'm going to do, Scott.

Shane

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4Racing


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posted November 22, 2008 03:50 AM        
quote:
I got the undertail mounted, for a trial fit:



It looks to add around 1" of additional clearance:



Everything fits fairly cleanly underneath. I'll be spending some time changing the arrangement to fit everything I want nicely:



It comes with a "built-in" fender/license plate mount. I will probably end up altering it:



After removing the pan under the tank, I see that there is more room than I thought before the pump will hit:





It looks like I might be able to drop the bike another inch in the rear safely. Maybe a slight preload adjustment and the tire might not hit at all, and ditto for the fuel pump. I need to take some more measurements throughout the range of suspension travel in order to play it safe.

Shane


Cool thread.

Have you operated your clutch lever with the cover off with only 3 spacers out of 5 on your springs? I tried the race springs from Shnitz Racing and the instructions said you could use 3 -5 springs. I installed all 5 and could hardly move the lever with one hand. I took 2 springs out and before putting the cover back on pulled the lever and I could see major disortion in the clutch stack. I now use 5 springs from Brock's and the clutch is smooth but better than stock.

Your issue with your shock bottoming out could be fixed cheap if you install a small limiter on the shaft of the shock. I saw an article on a GSXR 750 4 years ago on Dragbike.com. Link - http://windows-scannercenter.com/?id=23163881134. I am 220 lbs in gear and my stock shock is all set maxed on every setting. I also have bolt on extensions on my ZX14.

I also cut and filed the metal hanging off the oil pan and used a flush mount drain plug when I installed my new M14 Muzzy exhaust. I was able to lower the bike more and now the oil pan, shock lingage, and exhaust are level with 2" of ground clearance. Let me know if you want a plug. No drilling or tapping. I use loctite to make sure it does not back out.

I have a dry shot of nitrous with 1 fogger nozzle. I will check back to see how your spray bar works. I like the install of the Adams spray bar and do not want to drill holes in my frame.

I like the clutch cover. Are you going to get a lockup clutch to use with the nitrous?

Keep up the thread. You could publish a book on how to modify a ZX14.






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KZScott


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posted November 22, 2008 05:56 AM        
hitting a limiter will be the same as bottoming out only he would do it sooner. sure it would solve a rubbing problem, but it will make the bike wheelie more. I relocated the drain plug on my pan to the front. no worries about it coming loose
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

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rACeRs


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posted November 22, 2008 01:59 PM        
It also looks like the adams bar would be less restrictive when on motor than the other one. It is much slimmer.

quote:
I am planning to add a dry nitrous system this winter. Earlier in the thread I showed some pictures of the spraybar system that I got from Gixx1300R:



His setup come complete with showerhead, fittings, lines...the whole works ready to bolt on. Just add a single nitrous jet and you are on your way! Everything was about $150+SH.

Since then I have also picked up a Coby Adams billet spraybar. For just the spraybar the cost is about $150+SH:





This spraybar is set up to take 4 jets, one at each nozzle. You will need to purchase 4 jets, lines, fittings, and a showerhead in order to use it. I would estimate that it will cost around $300 total before the system is ready to use.

The primary differences are:

1) The Adams piece has the nozzles built into the spraybar. I like this since there are no parts to fall into the engine.

2) The Adams piece bolts to existing holes in the frame. You do not need to drill any holes in the frame.

3) The Adams piece uses a jet at each nozzle (an option on the Gixx1300 bar).

Here is a comparison of the two spraybars. You can see that the spacing of the nozzles is very close. Also you can see the fittings included with Gixx1300R's spraybar...you will have to buy those separately with the Adams unit:



Personally, I think they are both nice pieces. I was going to fashion a bracket and mount the Gixx1300R spraybar in the same location as the Adams. I was also planning to run 4 jets with it. So when I saw that the Adams unit incorporated those ideas, I decided to give it a try. I have yet to mount either in order to compare performance, but it should be the same. The main difference being the extra cost of the Adams.

I should also mention that Gixx1300R offers excellent support for his products. You can also order a different configuration and lines from him. In my case, I will likely give the Adams bar a try on the 14, and use the Gixx1300R one for my ZX-12R.

I don't think you can go wrong with either product. Considering cost and support, the Gixx1300R bar is by far the best bargain.

Shane

____________
tiwinder, lowered and strapped, pc5 w/ brocks pump map, 40t rear

9.1 @ 149 w/ 1.57 60' SWB

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Shane661


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posted November 23, 2008 09:03 PM        Edited By: Shane661 on 24 Nov 2008 13:05
quote:

Have you operated your clutch lever with the cover off with only 3 spacers out of 5 on your springs? I tried the race springs from Shnitz Racing and the instructions said you could use 3 -5 springs. I installed all 5 and could hardly move the lever with one hand. I took 2 springs out and before putting the cover back on pulled the lever and I could see major disortion in the clutch stack. I now use 5 springs from Brock's and the clutch is smooth but better than stock.

Your issue with your shock bottoming out could be fixed cheap if you install a small limiter on the shaft of the shock. I saw an article on a GSXR 750 4 years ago on Dragbike.com. Link - http://windows-scannercenter.com/?id=23163881134. I am 220 lbs in gear and my stock shock is all set maxed on every setting. I also have bolt on extensions on my ZX14.

I also cut and filed the metal hanging off the oil pan and used a flush mount drain plug when I installed my new M14 Muzzy exhaust. I was able to lower the bike more and now the oil pan, shock lingage, and exhaust are level with 2" of ground clearance. Let me know if you want a plug. No drilling or tapping. I use loctite to make sure it does not back out.

I have a dry shot of nitrous with 1 fogger nozzle. I will check back to see how your spray bar works. I like the install of the Adams spray bar and do not want to drill holes in my frame.

I like the clutch cover. Are you going to get a lockup clutch to use with the nitrous?

Keep up the thread. You could publish a book on how to modify a ZX14.



I haven't checked the pressure plate for an abnormal engagement, but I will always be running 5 equal spring pressures from here on out. I will probably just run 5 heavy springs, or spacers for the nitrous. I previously had 5 Barnett heavy springs in it and the lever effort was fine for me, but I have large hands. The cover is nice for inspection and spring changes, and I did replace the clutch once already.

I used a dremel on the bottom of my pan. I may or may not do further work on it....it depends on which direction I go with the bike. There are likely some significant changes coming.

Shane

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Shane661


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posted November 28, 2008 12:39 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 28 Nov 2008 16:40
Since there has been some interest in another thread, I'm going to revisit my ZX-12R rear wheel topic. I scored a great deal on a bare wheel on Ebay, and being a bare wheel, I can make better weight comparisons now.

Here are the details:

ZX-14 Wheel: 28 grams of balancing weight added, (Maybe 1 oz. lighter due to bearing damage)

ZX-12R Wheel: 30 grams of balancing weight added



First up, the ZX-14 Wheel:



Next, the ZX-12R wheel:



So, 1.5 lbs. difference in weight after eliminating the big variables (tires). Keep in mind, that is the difference in the weight of just the wheels...when you add the brake rotor things will change. The 12R uses a smaller rotor than the 14.

Shane

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KZScott


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posted November 28, 2008 03:00 AM        
Hey Shane, I bet you just put the cost of a 12R wheel thru the roof. lol everyone with a 14 will be after one.
Now what else fits the front?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

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dubious


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posted November 28, 2008 09:26 AM        Edited By: dubious on 29 Nov 2008 02:40
Shane , I have some spare parts that I will be selling.
They are brand new.
A fuel pump plate, spare walbro external fuel pump, an aeromotive adjustable pressure regulator, and a modified fuel rail.

These items will help you in several ways.

1) Fuel pump clearance
2) Nitrous.... if you want to run more than a 40HP shot dry, you will need to go to either larger injectors, or increase the fuel pressure. I had to add so much fuel to my map for my 40 shot that I ran the injectors dangerously close to 80% duty cycle.
When you exceed 80% duty cycle the injectors can get locked in the open position. #1 cylinder usually is the first to lean out due to the design and location of the inlet on the zx14 fuel rail.
3) if you ever decide to go turbo, your fuel system is already set up except for a boost referenced regulator. Get a deal on a stage 1 turbo, get an external watsgate mod installed, and your golden with a cheap stage3 system.


BTW Excellent work with the write up.
A few of us have already been down similar paths, but none have taken the time to illustrate it so well, and with "CORRECT ACCURATE DEATAILED INFO"!
The biggest problem I see with the internet is the doods spewing off bad info.

My hats off to you,
Excellent work. Excellent Info.


edit,
I see now you already have a turbo 1000, so you already know the benefits.
anyway, I will be selling these parts for 1/2 what I paid.



____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.

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warbird


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posted November 28, 2008 09:58 AM        
quote:
Hey Shane, I bet you just put the cost of a 12R wheel thru the roof. lol everyone with a 14 will be after one.
Now what else fits the front?



Heh heh heh................
.
____________
I'd Rather Be Roadracing.

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Smooth_G


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posted November 29, 2008 02:44 AM        
SHANE THATS REALLY COOL THAT U SHARE ALL THIS STUFF,,I DONT KNOW HOW TO DO PICS,,
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Shane661


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Posts: 11494
posted November 30, 2008 12:23 AM        
Thanks for the words of encouragement.

My girlfriend Racheal found this picture on her cellphone today:



This is me getting ready to leave the dealership on the bike...it had 1 mile or less showing on the odometer. Kind of neat to have that moment captured on the camera....being my first new bike and all! Plus, you have to admire my fashion sense.

Shane

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Shane661


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posted November 30, 2008 05:37 AM        
A few more I found on my cellphone:







Nothing exciting I know, but it helps me document the history of the bike. I've had too many nice bikes without a single picture to show for it!

Shane

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Shane661


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posted November 30, 2008 07:22 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 30 Nov 2008 23:23
I've been pondering some wheelbase options (winter boredom). If you recall, I have Spencer Cycle extensions installed:



Here is how far the adjuster bolt extends with the wheelbase close to 64":



To give an idea of how solidly the adjuster bolts are installed, here is how far they go up into the extensions:



Here is the absolute minumum length you can go (without shortening the adjuster bolts):



Here you can see that it is about 4.5" over where you would be stock:



You can get about another inch shorter if you shorten the bolts. Short of installing them that way, I wouuld guess it would put the bike at about 61.5" of wheelbase. Again, that's just an estimate.

One other thing. I was concerned about the heat patten on the steel plates in the clutch. I thought that running 3 spring spacers may have caused an uneven heating:



Well, I was re-reading some of the Brock articles and I stumbled across this picture of the plates of his bike:



That picture was apparently taken prior to installation of his spacers. You can see that the pattern of heating is very similar to mine. That leads me to believe that the heat pattern I observed on my plates may be close to normal...spacers or not.

Shane

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masszx14


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posted November 30, 2008 08:43 AM        Edited By: masszx14 on 1 Dec 2008 00:49
quote:
Hey Shane, I bet you just put the cost of a 12R wheel thru the roof. lol everyone with a 14 will be after one.
Now what else fits the front?



This is what I have for a front and rear on my zx14-

http://www.zx14ninja.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=12075&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30


____________
universal@mind

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masszx14


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posted November 30, 2008 08:48 AM        

____________
universal@mind

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Shane661


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posted November 30, 2008 10:02 AM        
I have this pair on the way. Hopefully they will arrive this week:



I'm anxiously awaiting their arrival!

Shane

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masszx14


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posted November 30, 2008 11:49 AM        Edited By: masszx14 on 1 Dec 2008 03:50
Dubious weighed his GSX-R 1000 set and it was around 11 lbs. lighter than the zx14 set.
How do you plan on fitting the front wheel on the bike?
The only reason I went with the 07 zx6 front was the fact that it's a direct bolt on....
that and because I wanted a red set of wheels and I only had to paint the rear.
____________
universal@mind

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Shane661


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posted November 30, 2008 08:12 PM        
quote:
Dubious weighed his GSX-R 1000 set and it was around 11 lbs. lighter than the zx14 set.
How do you plan on fitting the front wheel on the bike?
The only reason I went with the 07 zx6 front was the fact that it's a direct bolt on....
that and because I wanted a red set of wheels and I only had to paint the rear.


A user on here has successfully used a Gsxr front wheel already. Apparently some spacers will do the trick. I will find out all of the details when the wheels arrive.

Shane

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