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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: - +1 Gearing, Sputtering, Revisited? - NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
Shane661


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posted August 12, 2012 12:33 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 12 Aug 2012 15:35
- +1 Gearing, Sputtering, Revisited? -

I know this was a topic of discussion awhile back...lowering overall gearing could cause the bike to sputter for some reason. Well, I confirmed it on my bike today as well. 43T = sputtering in the 4700-5200 rpm range, seemingly only in 1st and 2nd gears, at light throttle settings (think street, not race). Parked the bike, took it back out with a 42T, fifteen minutes later. No sputtering.

Did anyone ever figure out a solution to this? It's not a big deal for me to run stock gearing, but I am really curious as to the cause. TC was off, of course.

Btw, no such problems when running smaller than stock rear sprockets.

Shane

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blue07


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posted August 12, 2012 01:11 AM        Edited By: blue07 on 12 Aug 2012 16:12
Mine has a 43 on it...no sputtering.Runs smooth as glass?I'd say mapping rather than gearing....I'm thinking....engine performance at any given rpm....don't see how gearing plays into that?TC...'1'.
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Seno


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posted August 12, 2012 01:56 AM        Edited By: Seno on 12 Aug 2012 16:57
quote:
I know this was a topic of discussion awhile back...lowering overall gearing could cause the bike to sputter for some reason. Well, I confirmed it on my bike today as well. 43T = sputtering in the 4700-5200 rpm range, seemingly only in 1st and 2nd gears, at light throttle settings (think street, not race). Parked the bike, took it back out with a 42T, fifteen minutes later. No sputtering.

Did anyone ever figure out a solution to this? It's not a big deal for me to run stock gearing, but I am really curious as to the cause. TC was off, of course.

Btw, no such problems when running smaller than stock rear sprockets.

Shane


WOW, dude.... I have had the same thing going on and have been going crazy. Last weekend I took off my PCV, WB2, alarm, Quickshifter, NOS, and fan relay.... Changed the plugs also. Ran 4 tanks of gas through it this week, 2 with techtron, 1 with redline, 1 with BG 44K. Still has a stutter at small throttle openings. It became obvious all of a sudden when I put a stock ECU back in my bike 2 weeks ago while mine was out being re-flashed. Next in line was checking TPS + testing the injectors.....
I went into the dealer yesterday to find out when the 2013 were going to be in..... Yes, I am really that frustrated.
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Shane661


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posted August 12, 2012 02:03 AM        
quote:
Mine has a 43 on it...no sputtering.Runs smooth as glass?I'd say mapping rather than gearing....I'm thinking....engine performance at any given rpm....don't see how gearing plays into that?TC...'1'.


It is not the mapping. A gearing change doesn't affect the fueling. I changed these sprockets back-to-back and tested.

This issue has been documented as ecu-related, already. But I am just confirming that it does it on my bike as well. Perhaps not all bikes are affected, but many are.

Shane

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Shane661


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posted August 12, 2012 02:04 AM        
quote:


WOW, dude.... I have had the same thing going on and have been going crazy. Last weekend I took off my PCV, WB2, alarm, Quickshifter, NOS, and fan relay.... Changed the plugs also. Ran 4 tanks of gas through it this week, 2 with techtron, 1 with redline, 1 with BG 44K. Still has a stutter at small throttle openings. It became obvious all of a sudden when I put a stock ECU back in my bike 2 weeks ago while mine was out being re-flashed. Next in line was checking TPS + testing the injectors.....
I went into the dealer yesterday to find out when the 2013 were going to be in..... Yes, I am really that frustrated.


What is your gearing, currently?

Shane

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Seno


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posted August 12, 2012 02:12 AM        Edited By: Seno on 12 Aug 2012 17:21
+1 Vortex...
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Seno


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posted August 12, 2012 02:21 AM        
I never had this issue until I put a stock ECU back in my bike temporarily while mine was being sent out.... Now my bike does this with a stock ECU, flashed ECU and a different bikes ECU.... driving me crazy. Had to modify or change something, or disable a sensor, or just fuck something up.... I am at my end with this....
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Shane661


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posted August 12, 2012 02:23 AM        
quote:
I never had this issue until I put a stock ECU back in my bike temporarily while mine was being sent out.... Now my bike does this with a stock ECU, flashed ECU and a different bikes ECU.... driving me crazy. Had to modify or change something, or disable a sensor, or just fuck something up.... I am at my end with this....


I have the first Guhl flash. I would change it back to stock gearing. +1 is not that big of a difference, imo. I ran them both today.

Shane

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Seno


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posted August 12, 2012 02:43 AM        
I agree +1 is not a big difference at all. My point is that I installed the +1 the first month I had the bike, and it never started doing it until 3 weeks ago. I sent out my ECU to be flashed and pulled an ECU out of a bike with 0 miles on it and plugged it in, since then every ECU does the same thing. I am going to try and reset the ECU, or discharge the system then see if it still does it. I mean since plugging the new ECU in my bike constantly does it.... First thing I will try today is "resetting the ECU" by disconnecting battery and holding down brake for 20 secs, switching key back & forth etc...
If that does not clear it, I will put the stock sprocket on and test that...

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Shane661


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posted August 12, 2012 02:49 AM        
quote:
I agree +1 is not a big difference at all. My point is that I installed the +1 the first month I had the bike, and it never started doing it until 3 weeks ago. I sent out my ECU to be flashed and pulled an ECU out of a bike with 0 miles on it and plugged it in, since then every ECU does the same thing. I am going to try and reset the ECU, or discharge the system then see if it still does it. I mean since plugging the new ECU in my bike constantly does it.... First thing I will try today is "resetting the ECU" by disconnecting battery and holding down brake for 20 secs, switching key back & forth etc...
If that does not clear it, I will put the stock sprocket on and test that...



Ok, man, let me know what you find out!

Shane

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blue07


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posted August 12, 2012 02:52 AM        Edited By: blue07 on 12 Aug 2012 17:56
"A gearing change doesn't affect the fueling"...that's exactly what I'm saying...it's most likely NOT your gearing.I have the first Guhl flash as well...with the Brock's deal....it doesn't sputter...at any rpm,load....stock ecu or not.Stock gearing,or not.IDK....not trying to change your posts or anything....just offering MY experiences so far with my bike and mods.


let me ask you this then...have EITHER of you checked the pair valve block mod?Mine began to pull air into it...I could tell something was not right....she began running a wee bit different,with more and more(which wasn't much)popping and edgyness.It was my pair line ...it was coming loose from the blocked airbox deal.Reblocked it...perfect ever since.

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kawasakijockey


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posted August 12, 2012 03:06 AM        
I would think that the wheel speed sensors readings and engine rpm in a certain gear would have to be in a parameter to where the computer does it's proper adjusting at a certain throttle positions. Could be totally off base but maybe it is the problem.
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Shane661


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posted August 12, 2012 03:12 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 12 Aug 2012 18:15
quote:
"A gearing change doesn't affect the fueling"...that's exactly what I'm saying...it's most likely NOT your gearing.I have the first Guhl flash as well...with the Brock's deal....it doesn't sputter...at any rpm,load....stock ecu or not.Stock gearing,or not.IDK....not trying to change your posts or anything....just offering MY experiences so far with my bike and mods.


let me ask you this then...have EITHER of you checked the pair valve block mod?Mine began to pull air into it...I could tell something was not right....she began running a wee bit different,with more and more(which wasn't much)popping and edgyness.It was my pair line ...it was coming loose from the blocked airbox deal.Reblocked it...perfect ever since.


Dude...back to back testing of sprockets...+1 sputters, stock does not. 15 minutes apart. It seems like an ecu glitch of sorts. No such issues on Gen1...and with TC off, there should be no such issues on Gen 2.

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Shane661


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posted August 12, 2012 03:13 AM        
quote:
I would think that the wheel speed sensors readings and engine rpm in a certain gear would have to be in a parameter to where the computer does it's proper adjusting at a certain throttle positions. Could be totally off base but maybe it is the problem.


That would hold merit...but -2 gearing has no such issues.

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Viper


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posted August 12, 2012 03:35 AM        
I have -1 in front and +2(44) in back and never had this problem, ecu is flashed also. The bucking issue I think is what was fixed in the mapping. So maybe resetting the ecu is the ticket
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Shane661


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posted August 12, 2012 03:50 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 12 Aug 2012 18:51
quote:
I have -1 in front and +2(44) in back and never had this problem, ecu is flashed also. The bucking issue I think is what was fixed in the mapping. So maybe resetting the ecu is the ticket


As I am sure you can understand...if you change sprockets back-to-back, and the bike "bucks"...there is something going on with the ecu. Now, there may be work-arounds, or maybe there is some issue to reset the ecu...but no reason that a new map should be required for such an issue.

Perhaps it only shows itself with a minor change in gearing??

Shane

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blue07


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posted August 12, 2012 04:45 AM        Edited By: blue07 on 12 Aug 2012 19:45
"Dude...back to back testing of sprockets."...well...that's what I did as well...back to back.My stock setup...stock ecu....Brock's streetmap,...ran fine everywhere in the rpm range.Changed rear sprocket to a 43....ran like a champ.Reinstalled my Guhl flashed ECU...ran like a champ....Don't know what to say....it doesn't HAVE to be the ECU does it?I switched TWO ecu's,two sprocket sizes....both combos worked a-okay.I agree with the sensor thing...HOWEVER...one up in the rear ON MY BIKE did not produce any weird running deals.So...IDK.I'm pretty anal about my ride experiences...if it was acting odd...I'd know it.Going one up DID however raise my MPG....though I don't know exactly HOW that happened....went even higher with the flashed ECU in there again.I ran er up to top end...it wasn't limiting(had that disabled)...and she still waned to go faster....it topped at 190 before I had to shut down(ran out of straight)....let me say here....with this gearing...my speedo was right on the money.....
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smokinZX14


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posted August 12, 2012 05:03 AM        Edited By: smokinZX14 on 12 Aug 2012 20:08
I'm 16 / 44 now .. Had run 16/ 43 , 42, 41, stock and 17/41 40 and 39 and never had this happen to my bike ever .. I have every mod you guys have and the bike is smooth everywhere... Even smoother that i put the flies back in ... Only mod i did NOT do was block off the pair valve , it didn't get a red cap with my pipe so i never blocked it off .. I believe Shane when he said he has a problem , I'm just not seeing or feeling what he is with my bike ..

I wish i had a clue to what is going on but i don't..
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Seno


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posted August 12, 2012 05:20 AM        
Disconnecting the battery did not help, tried several maps & a 0 map... no good. Very small throttle openings is where it bucks. Anything over 20% throttle is great, thinking maybe something with the TPS.. Going to give it to dealer tomorrow to play with, if they don't fix it... 2013 will be here in a month or so, glad this one paid off.
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smokinZX14


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posted August 12, 2012 05:25 AM        
quote:
Disconnecting the battery did not help, tried several maps & a 0 map... no good. Very small throttle openings is where it bucks. Anything over 20% throttle is great, thinking maybe something with the TPS.. Going to give it to dealer tomorrow to play with, if they don't fix it... 2013 will be here in a month or so, glad this one paid off.
Seno ? trade it for a 2013 ZX14R ? If you do the same mods to the 2013 would it not have the same problem ..?


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blue07


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posted August 12, 2012 05:26 AM        
Brock corrected my 'bucking deal' with a revised map.


"Even smoother that i put the flies back in "...uhmm...okay Smokin....I'll reinstall mine... again....THIS TIME...I'll be extree careful about their positioning...hell...it was ONLY the last one that hung up...looked fine to me...but...

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blue07


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posted August 12, 2012 05:32 AM        
I had no idea it was 'barely' touching.They all looked okay.If ONLY I would have checked THAT one first...then I'd have my flys in right now....I think....
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Seno


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posted August 12, 2012 05:33 AM        
quote:
quote:
Disconnecting the battery did not help, tried several maps & a 0 map... no good. Very small throttle openings is where it bucks. Anything over 20% throttle is great, thinking maybe something with the TPS.. Going to give it to dealer tomorrow to play with, if they don't fix it... 2013 will be here in a month or so, glad this one paid off.
Seno ? trade it for a 2013 ZX14R ? If you do the same mods to the 2013 would it not have the same problem ..?




Yes, possibly.. At least this time I will know what mods I want for sure... Besides I like the new colors...





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blue07


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posted August 12, 2012 05:35 AM        Edited By: blue07 on 12 Aug 2012 20:37
Ahem.....those are EURO colors my man...you won't see these in the US.... There's nothing wrong with your bike....ditch the ECU flash from whoever you got it from...get that Brock's flash,and PCV mapping...you'll be good to go!Simple.Your bike's okay......I like that black one...she's a keeper Bro!
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smokinZX14


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posted August 12, 2012 05:37 AM        
quote:
Brock corrected my 'bucking deal' with a revised map.


"Even smoother that i put the flies back in "...uhmm...okay Smokin....I'll reinstall mine... again....THIS TIME...I'll be extree careful about their positioning...hell...it was ONLY the last one that hung up...looked fine to me...but...
Blue install all the flies and just barely snug the screws , then with you hand push the shaft with your finger from the right side of the bike ..Do it a few times and that will center the flies .. Now tighten the screws ...
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