gymply
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted October 05, 2005 07:17 AM
HELP!!! Intermittent electrical problem
I have an intermittent electrical problem and am hoping someone here has the solution. Bike is a 2000 ZX-12R with 11K miles.
Sometimes the bike will not charge. It seems to be heat related but I am not 100% sure. When the bike does not charge the headlights will not come on at startup. I traced the schematic and found that there is a relay coil that energizes directly off one of the alternator output leads before it goes thru the regulator. I checked the output of the alternator and it was not putting out any voltage. I replaced the alternator. Bike ran fine for a few thousand miles. Then, the problem came back.
I checked the alternator again and the output was ok. I checked the voltage regulator and it ohmed ok and the output was ok. I decided to go ahead and replace it since this is an intermittent problem. Cranked the bike up and the lights were on. Took it on a 50 mile test run and everything was fine. Got home and cut it off. Opened the garage door. Cranked it up and the lights are off again. WTF!@#%$
Any ideas? Are there any known problems that could cause this? I am aware of the oil in the alternator connector issue and the replacement alternator had the upgraded connector. The only part of the charging system I have not replaced is the flywheel rotor. The magnets are strong. Is there any way this could be the problem?
Any input or ideas would be greatly appreciated. I will take it to the dealer only as a last resort, but I am getting tired of f'ing with it.
Thanks,
gymply
  
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21893
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posted October 05, 2005 08:06 AM
did you replace the battery? defective battery will intermitantly hold a charge, creating the symptoms you describe.
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gymply
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted October 05, 2005 08:12 AM
Yes. battery is brand new.
~gymply
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21893
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posted October 05, 2005 09:10 AM
Can you clarify... did you have this problem, and then go out and replace the battery, and then the problem persisted? And is the bike being used regularly? Or is it sitting for say, 1 month and then the problem happens again?
There is a small current draw from the computer/ clock etc that will drain a fully charged battery if you let it sit. Also if it is drained below a certain point the bike's charging system will not be able to bring the battery back to a full state of charge.
I'm just asking these questions as the most obvious problem tends to be the source.
So can you clarify that you put a brand new fully charged (on a charger) battery in the bike and then the same prob. happened immediately, or did it take 1 or 2 months to manifest itself?
Also, did you perform a load test on the "new" battery to confirm that it was not defective? (this has happened as well)
These are all things that should be confirmed before looking for more "esoteric" sources for your problem.
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gymply
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted October 05, 2005 10:35 AM
Fish,
Here's the timeline: The original problem happened last year (SEP 04). That's when I replaced the stator. Bike was great for a month or two and then the problem came back. I had just purchased another bike so I sort of lost interest and was not in a hurry to diagnose and fix.
Finally got around to it this month. I replaced the voltage regulator and installed a brand new battery yesterday. Battery was bought this week and put on a trickle charger overnight before install so it should be 100%. I have not performed a load test and I don't have a battery tester. I don't think it is the battery because this is the same problem I had originally last year with a different battery. I should probably carry it back to the store and get it tested to be sure as you have suggested.
I am planning on getting the multi-meter out and rechecking everything this weekend. All the signs point to a faulty stator (again) but I need to verify output and not speculate. I have not put a meter on anything since the yesterdays malfunction. I was too upset to think coherently at the time. Are there any know problems with the 12R that cause it to eat stators? There was no oil in the connector yesterday when I left the house but I haven't rechecked it yet. The new stator supposedly had the upgraded harness.
I am going to start from scratch and re check everything this weekend. As Dr. Spock once said, "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, is the answer". If it ate another stator I am going to be pissed!
Thanks,
~gymply
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 05, 2005 11:30 AM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 5 Oct 2005 12:31
When you say you replaced the Alternator you mean only the Stator? and not the Rotor? did you see any wear inside the Stator like the Rotor was rubbing?
You know the wires leave the Stator and go through the top engine mount then back to the Rectifier. You have check all of these wires while they are in place using a Needle and a Ohm meter? This is where I think your problem may be. When you say Heat related, that Rectifier gets real Hot and until you replaced it, I was thinking that it was the spot
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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gymply
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted October 05, 2005 12:16 PM
Yes. Only the stator winding. The rotor did not appear to have any rubbing and the magnets were strong. The original stator was definately bad. I checked it with a meter at the regulator connector and it was not putting out any voltage. It did not look burnt or fried, but it was only putting out about 10 volts @ 4000 RPM.
I am going to rechecheck the new stator output this weekend or earlier if I get some time. Then I am going to check the regulator output. After that I plan on a close inspection of all the connections.
When you say "check it using a needle with the wires in place" do you mean check the wires for shorts to ground?
Thanks for the input,
~gymply
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 05, 2005 01:46 PM
No. mean usint Needles like seamtrest use Push 1 in one end of the wire near the stator and using the Ohm Meter connect that needle to the end of the wire to see if you can get any open wires. That is what I do when testing a section of wire to know exactly where it is bad so I will know what caused it and how to stop it in the future. You always want everything in place as you would run the bike
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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gymply
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted October 05, 2005 07:15 PM
Edited By: gymply on 6 Oct 2005 04:50
Well, here's an update. I got home this afternoon and had some time so I went to work on the 12. Long story short, the stator is fried again, The resistance between the three windings was in spec according to the manual but all were shorted to ground. Damn it!
Even though it was shorted to ground I checked the output anyway. Measurements at 4K RPM were 102, 104, and 68 VAC. Incidentally, the weak leg was the lead that has the piggyback connector for the headlight relay in the junction box located under the ashtray. I pulled the J-box just to be sure nothing was fried in there and causing the problem. Everything looked good and both relay coils measure around 10 Meg. I believe it is ok but wanted to check everything that has anything to do with the stator.
Here's something that happened that was weird. When I went to check the stator output I fired the bike up and let it run a few minutes. The lights did not come on upon startup. While I was going thru the output voltage check I blipped the throttle a few times and the lights came on! WTF?? I guess when I revved it; the voltage output came up enough to latch the relay in the J-box. Any other ideas on that?
I went ahead and pulled the stator off tonight. It is burn up and definitely fried. I will inspect closer tomorrow and try to see if I can locate the short. Murphy struck again too. When I was taking the fairing off one of the Allen head bolts stripped and I had to drill it out. Lovely! Nothing like having to work on something in order to work on something.
Found a Parts Unlimited dealer here in Fort Worth and he can have a new stator by Friday. $119 from them. Hopefully, it will be ok. I usually order factory Kawi parts but the stator is $311 from Ron Ayers. For $200 difference I will chance the aftermarket stator. I'm going to go a head and order it and install this weekend. I just hope this was a fluke and this problem does not happen again. I plan on checking all the associated connections tomorrow while I'm waiting on the stator to get here Friday.
Thanks for everyone's input. I'll post an update after I get her back on the road.
~gymply
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted October 06, 2005 09:17 PM
Gymply if you wiring connectors are good I would definately be interested in them. The ones off the stator that is..
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gymply
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted October 11, 2005 11:38 AM
Well I am back on the road after replacing the stator. Upon closer examination it appears that some of the varnish came loose on the back side of one of the windings and that's where the short was. Stator was $120 from Parts Unlimited (Part # 2112-0035). One thing of note, the Parts Unlimited stator did not have the piggy back lead that goes to the junction box. I had to cut and solder the old on. Also the grommet on the lead wires where it comes out of the stator cover is not as robust as the stock setup. It does not have the 90 elbow and attached rubber shielding. For saving $200 I can put up with that.
ZXNLT----
What connector do you need? The one that has the 3 wires from the stator and plugs into the voltage regulator? Ping me an email at rfranks@ronaldfranks.com with your address. You can have it but I want to put some high speed miles on the bike first to make sure I don't have the oil in connector issue with this stator. If all is well I'll mail you the old one.
~gymply
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted October 11, 2005 04:49 PM
Kewl, I dont need the stator just the wiring from it. Get with me whenever is fine..
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soldier7
Parking Attendant
Posts: 14
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posted April 25, 2012 07:21 PM
Hi, I have a elec question for my 2005 zx12 if someone can help me. I know that the Speed Sensor supply voltage gets its power from the clock meter, but does anyone know what the "Volts and Amps" are that are coming from the clock to the Sensor????
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soldier7
Parking Attendant
Posts: 14
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posted April 25, 2012 07:34 PM
2nd Question: I dont have the stock gauge meter on my bike so there is no where to connect the "#11 wire - fuel reserve switch" to. What does this wire do, can I just leave it or do I need to connect it to a manual toggle switch in order to turn on my fuel reserve???
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